ProLine Group Buy Update

UPDATE: The group buy is over, but you can find more info about the steadicam rig on my store, where you can also order it. Please send me a mail if you any questions about this or other ProLine products. 

Updated info

The needed amount of orders for the price in the webshop was lowered to 40.

New deadline is April 2nd.

Until now, 30 people (out of 66 who voted for the ProLine rig) ordered a unit. Hopefully, most people just hold out until the deadline is reached before ordering.

I attached the ProLine offer, so that you don't have to look for the old post.

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Partner - a short film produced by stage5 and Continuum

The boring and exhausting part of the group buy project seems to be coming to an end. The fun part should start in 45 days, when we take delivery of our rigs and can shoot with them :smile: Vitaliy seems to be in charge of the Laing group buy on reduser, so my work there is also done.

Many of you wrote me mails and personal messages to thank me for my work, which I really appreciated, especially in times when chaos ruled the threads.

Now I would like to ask you all for a favor. My short film, which I produced and directed for stage5 and Continuum, got published today. The film's executive producers are Mark Kern and Cindi Rice. Mark posted some months ago here on reduser about his ambitious project of funding short films (check out the thread).

Nowadays, views on youtube are a currency. I do have a great new film project which I want to shoot for stage5, but to get the funds, this first film has to be successful. So please have a look at my film "Partner" and, if you like it, share it with your friends.



Cheers
David

Password for the ProLine T2000 Reduser Edition

I started the first steadicam group buy thread on REDuser on 01-29-2013. We went into discussing a complete redesign with a Chinese manufacturer, got offers from many European, Chinese and American manufacturers and can now finally order a system which most of us (at least I when I started it all) would have never even dreamed of.

Again, you can order the ProLine T2000 for the 40+ price, which is very close to the 60+ price. If not enough orders come in (<40), all the orders get canceled. If more than 60 orders get placed, the price will be further reduced to the price posted on my blog or some stuff like cables will be added.

There are two version, one with flight case and one without.

And one more important info: monthly installments are possible for US citizens via Bill Me Later. Non US citizens have to take their credit cards installments plan, if they want to purchase via installments.

Here's the password for the ProLine webshop

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ProLine final price update

The final price for the ProLine T2000 is updated in the original offer. The password for the webshop will be posted here later today or tomorrow.

Action Products Offer

Action Products, the well known Swiss company, also sent me an offer for their new product, the ActionCam Raptor, which will be ready to ship around NAB2013.

Action Products was one of the first companies I contacted concerning this group buy, since they already created once a special RED edition of their ActionCam for redusers.

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Pros & Cons - ProLine vs. L'Aigle

Please leave comments about other pros and cons and I'll add them to the list.

L'Aigle

+ Latex system is silent
+ Experience (10 years in the market)
+ Made in France
+ vastly improved over last version, i.e. easy tension adjustment via knobs (see reviews on HomeBuiltStabilizers and NAB2009 article which I posted earlier)

+/- Cables can be run through the pole, so it's an open system
+/- double V-mount / AB-mount battery plate
+/- Payload adjustments from 4kg to 12kg / 8.8lbs to 26.4lbs
+/- trolley suitcase with three compartments
+/- warranty (2 years for everytihing and 10 years for latex)

- arm is mixed folded metal and cnc machined
- no cables included
- no J-Box (upper junction box)
- no D-Box (lower junction box)
- no low mode (low mode cage available for 349€; will ask for a discounted price)
- thin(ner) pole (than ProLine)
- not well known outside Paris...

ProLine

+ Payload adjustments from 0.45kg to 20,4kg / 1lb to 45lbs (2 sets of caliper springs)
+ arm completely cnc machined
+ custom made 6pin LEMO power cables for the RED one and Epic / Scarlet are included
+ 4x 12v and 1x 24 volt power cables
+ 12 / 24V for RED and film cameras
+ J-box with LEMO / HD-SDI conenctors
+ D-box with LEMO / HD-SDI conenctors
+ Arm and Sled made in Argentina and the US
+ possibility to pay via monthly installments
+ tripple V-mount / AB-mount battery plate
+ low mode

+/- Cables can be run through the pole, so it's an open system
+/- classic spring system
+/- Vest made in India, but modified in US
+/- young company
+/- 2 years warranty

- the spring system could be noisier (mechanical springs vs. latex bands)
- not well know either
- fly case not included for the two lowest prices (extra 150USD for the case)

L'Aigle test in Paris

Quentin Devillers will test the L'Aigle unit on Monday the 11th in Paris. Contact him on REDuser, if you want to join him.

EDIT: The test was postponed!

Side by Side Test - ProLine & Laing

UPDATE: The group buy is over, but you can find more info about the steadicam rig on my store, where you can also order it. Please send me a mail if you any questions about this or other ProLine products. 

There will be a test this Saturday the 9th of the ProLine and Laing units in LA at ProLine's office. I'll update this blog post with all the information, as soon as I get them. If you want to join the test, you can directly contact Luciano at ProLine.

Update #1

Info on the LA side-by-side ProLine and Laing test are posted in this thread. Contact nickmilo for more details.

Update #2

Nick wrote on REDuser

Finalized meet date/time/location:

3:00, this Saturday 2/9 @ Civic Center Park in Irvine.
(Entrance at corner of Harvard Ave and San Juan)

google maps

Two rigs will be there:
Laing/Scarlet: David Winters setup
Proline/Red1: Proline will bring their setup, and we’ll mount my R1 on there, and try a light and a heavy config...

I’ll be filming the whole thing, being sure to capture and compare a lot of the things brought up in the thread. If any RedUsers had any specific requests/tests or things to document on the rigs, please let me know (either on this thread or via PM) and I’ll be sure to cover it…

Update #3

Nicky Milo posted the results on reduser

So, here is the video from the PROLINE / LAING test... word of warning: they are LONG. It's not a polished edit, it was all whipped together rather quickly from a crazy long day of running around and testing -- but I figure, the more footage the better...

I just tried to do my best of getting all the info on there-- the first two are overviews of each system, and the last video is the raw footage straight out of the cameras: No CC, so please excuse the glaring differences in footage, especially the exposure differences towards the end of the day :) -- I just tried to get it done and up...

And two last warnings: I forgot to turn off the IS on my 5D, so yea, please excuse the annoying grinding sound while talking, and b/c there was no audio, I just threw in some M83 over the stabilizer footage, so if you don't like em, please feel free to mute the sound :)

Laing Overview

Proline Overview

Stabilizer Footage

Here is some bonus footage that David put together if you haven't seen it yet - some good BTS footage of the rigs in action :D

PROline offer

Here's the offer for the PROline T2000 rig

Updated with the final price 21-03-2013

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Update #1: prices added for 40-80 and 80+ sold units 

Update #2: I asked Luciano at PROline if it would be possible to add special RED cables, so that we can directly connect our RED one or Epic / Scarlet camera to the sled.

Yes we can do the wires, no problem, but I'll need the samples to make exactly the same cables. We also will customize parts and accessories to suit the needs of the majority of red users, creating a red-user special edition...what do you think?

Also 6pin cables which pass on the battery charge information should be possible.

No problem about the center post cable. We can do it. We'll need more info about the configuration for our technician. Can you give us some details?

Update #3: Luciano answered some more questions of reduser members

How much do sled, arm and vest each weight?

The Arm weighs 2kg 800g, the Sled weighs almost 4kg, the Vest is 3kg.

The case, that is shown on the photo, is included, isn't it? Is there also a case or bag for the vest?

The hard case is included, but the vest doesn't fit in the case. The case for the vest is not included and it will be shipped in a regular box. I will do my best to source some sort of bag for carrying and transport purposes. The pricing on the last two estimates [see blog] are extremely close to cost and I would set up an option to additionally purchase the case for $150 dollars.

Is there a tripod included in the package [additional to the mounting plate -> see offer]?

The tripod is not included because the cost of shipping will be more expensive than the cost of the tripod, so it's a better deal for our customers to buy one separate. But we can include an adapter if any of the red users know they will be using Speaker Tripods. These work really well for heavy weights and they are what I prefer to use. When I travel, I buy one for the job and the leave it there so I don't have to pay additional overweight charges.

Did you had a change to look at the special RED cables (2pin to 6pin LEMO)?

Yes, the cables we will provide for Red Cameras, as well as extra cables with Xlr for accessories.

Is it possible to run your own cables through the pole?

Yes, the topstage and the dbox twist of in seconds to pass the cables through the post for hdmi and other cables.

And if a cable breaks, is it user fixable?

Yes, all cables are fixable and exchangeable we can ship the new cables the next day.

How would we go forward with the group buy? Will you open a paypal store with a discount coupon for redusers? Or should I forward you the list of group members?

Regarding the payment process, I can set up a special page in our website with login and password and we can use this as a special purchase page. The special price depends on how many gears you plan to buy [...].

And is shipping included in the price?

Shipping is also not included in the price because shipping prices vary greatly with international shipping. All gears will be available in Los Angeles and shipping from there will be at the buyers expense, although we are happy to arrange the shipping for each customer.

A special invoice like in the Basson offer is included for international buyers.

 
 
 

L'Aigle offer

No part of this offer, neither price nor description of its contents, is to be posted anywhere. Only exception are the photos which can be posted on reduser.

 
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Update #1: Some new info inside the encrypted text

Update #2: Pierre from L'Aigle wrote me an other mail about the arm.

Since people asked, attached are pictures of what our sheet-metal arm looks like, in compare to our "sexy" CNC arm. We'll actually merge the design and adjustment method of the CNC arm with the technics of the sheet-metal arms for "your" series and our upcoming regular series. We'd just do it a little earlier than scheduled for the REDusers, if ever needed.

I attached the photos below the photos of the CNC version.

Update #3: Pierre from Aigle responded to the questions of reduer members I forwarded to him

Are all parts manufactured in France?

Yes, they are, except for standard catalogue parts like bearings, spirit levels, screws, etc.

Can you post some pictures of the bag and trolley?

See attached. The bag is for arm, sled, tripod, frontmounted vest and a little softbag for accessories and monitor.

Could you include in the package a power cable for the RED one or the RED Epic (6pin LEMO, see manual), depending on which option is ordered?

We wouldn't supply any cable (other than standard BNC and XLR4 cables), but just an extremely easy way to wire the sled the way each user want it.

How much do sled, arm and vest each weight?

Sled 3,8kg, arm 4,5kg, vest 2,8kg.

Quentin wrote me that the test was postponed. Are there any reviews by independent authors, which you could send me?

Attached is a review from a canadian journalist and operator, about as outdated as the 2005 to 2010 reviews you [posted]. 

Here some photos of the previous arm. The proposed arm will look similar, but will feature the improvements mentioned in the offer.

Timeline

Just some approximate dates. I'll post updates as soon as I get some new information.

Ordering 03/15/2013
Receiving the steadicams 04/01/2013

This can of course change, depending on the incoming offers.

Status update and Rant

I think there are a few things to clarify:

1) CAME IS NOT THE MANUFACTURER

Joey from CAME has not responded yet to my email including the modifications and the question whether he or LAING is the manufacturer. On the other hand, the communication with Tracy from Laing is wonderful. Do you really want to order from someone who is probably lying to sell his stuff? Right now, it seems pretty obvious that CAME is NOT the manufacturer, but here is a quote from a mail he wrote me:

"We are manufacture who producing steadicam, but we do not produce stands and monitor, sorry we can not supply stand and monitor to you." 02/01/2013

2) CAME IS PROBABLY TRYING TO CLEAR THEIR STOCK

Laing who obviously is the manufacturer was already working on a new model which they will now redesign according to our needs. That means that the product life cycle of the M02 model is nearing it's end. CAME probably still hasn't expected a new version so fast is now trying to clear their stock.

3) LAING WILL DELIVER SOON

Some quotes from LAING:

"I've recorded all the requirements that you've sent to me and reported them to our technicians. As you will test our M-02 this Sunday, I think all your suggestions and requirements will come out during the next week. So, if no exception, we can start to design and produce in two weeks. That's great. We are looking forward to it:-)" 02/21/2013

"Thanks for your updated information. I will discuss it with our technicians tomorrow. I will reply you in details then. Please feel free to contact us if there is any other requirements. I will keep you informed of every step." 02/28/2013

In contrast to Joey from CAME, who stopped communication / hasn't replied yet after I requested the modifications, LAING sees this as a great opportunity for both parties.

4) IF YOU NEED A UNIT, PLEASE DON'T THREATEN THIS GROUP BUY! PURCHASE AT LAING

If you need a unit really soon, which is completely understandable when having a deadline for a project, please order from LAING. We can probably add this early orders to the group buy. You will get the M02, just not from the reseller CAME but from the original manufacturer.

5) THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS

I personally think that this custom LAING reduser steadicam will be amazing. Still, I can understand people who want to buy into an established product or company. I'm in contact with PROline, MOVcam and L'Aigle who also want to send me their offers (including new unrevealed products which could be very interesting for us). They know our price limit and are still interested. But... none of these products will probably feature the amount of cables and customization the LAING system offers.

6) TIMELINE

Ok give me a break here. We tested the unit on Sunday. The reviews were out on Monday and Tuesday (thanks again Mike and Kwan), the list with the requested modifications was sent out on Thursday morning and we already got a reply from LAING that they are working it through with the technicians today. Things take time. LAING wants to move on as fast as we do (hey the market is tough), but we can't probably expect to get our systems before early April. WHICH STILL WOULD BE AWESOME!!! You can't want a complete redesign, not really pay for it and want to have it done yesterday.

I'll post a wiring diagram and some more information later. Please don't order at CAME and threaten the group buy. You can get the same system now and still be member of the group buy in the sense that your unit counts to the total ordered amount of units.

Cheers
David

Group Buy History & Updates

I posted in [URL="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?93751-Testing-amp-Playing-with-Chinese-Steadicam-at-Finalfootage-com-(NYC-REDuser-s-Meeting)"]two[/URL] [URL="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?91009-Anyone-have-any-experience-with-the-Chinese-knock-off-Steadicams-Like-this-one"]threads[/URL] about the idea to make a group purchase of this [URL="http://www.camera-video-broadcast.com/products/2-15kg-Load-Camera-Video-Steadycam-Stabilizer-Steadycam-Carbon-Fiber_141.html"]Chinese steadycam system[/URL].

Update #1: The manufacturer sent me an email that as long as we purchase 10 or more units, it's USD1495/pcs including shipment to every buyer (excluding Africa and Southern America, but that's probably negotiable).

Update #2: I contacted ActionProducts, Floatcam, Betz-Tools, Movcam and EEmov (and now also Basson and Liang) and asked for quotes for a Zephyr like system with a back-mounted vest.

Update #3: ActionProducts will reveal the Raptor soon, but it's out of our price range. Floatcam and eemov will send me an group buy offer early next week. Betz-Tools might consider an offer (but it will be probably also way out of our price range).

Update #4: Joey from camera-video-broadcast.com (CAME) wrote me:

[I]"The packages including:
1 x Metal Vest
1 x Carbon Fiber Stablizer
1 x Support Dual Arm
1 x Base for battery Mount
1 x Base for Monitor
16 X 100g ballance weight
1 x Adjustable plate for handheld stabilizer
1 x portable bag

We are manufacture who producing steadicam, but we do not produce stands and monitor, sorry we can not supply stand and monitor to you.

One more thing,  After buyers confirm buy it and payment,  we will refund some money to you. we can not telling you how much refund will be. but we can promise it will be lower than 1495USD/set."[/I]

Since those aren't the information we are looking for, I'll write him again, asking about photos and a test unit.

Update #5: MOVcam contacted me. They are considering an offer for the [URL="http://www.movcam.com/en/avant-s-overview/camera-stabilizers/avant-s.html"]Avant Series S[/URL] for the group buy. But there won't be any news until February 18th, since the Chinese New Year starts tomorrow.

Update #6: Kwan should have received his CAME system (exactly the system we're interested in). Lets put together a group meeting in late February / early March to review the CAME system, the eeMOV Hawk Ultra Pro, the MOVcam Avant S and the Floatcam FC12.

Update #7: eemov sent me their offer. The floatcam offer should arrive today or tomorrow. eemov asked to not openly discuss the price, so I'll send a pm to everyone on the list of interested buyers with the offers. If you haven't received a pm until Friday night, please contact me. The MOVcam offer should arrive after the 18th, since it's still Chinese New Year holiday.

Update #8: Contacted Liang directly for an offer. Also asked [URL="http://www.bassonsteady.com.ar/shop/categorias.asp?id=1"]Basson[/URL] for an offer for this group buy.

Update #9: PM sent to everyone on the list.

Update #10: Floatcam's offer:

Regular prizes (excl. VAT):

FC12    4100,-€
FC14    7100,-€
Back Mounted West Upgrade    350,-€
Shipping 30-80€ depending on system and country

Our offer for the red forum:

FC12 when ordering:

2-4 pieces    discount    7%
5-10 pieces    discount     9%
10-20 pieces    discount     11%
20-30 pieces    discount    14%
35 or more pieces discount    TBA

FC14 when ordering:

2-4 pieces    discount     9%
5-10 pieces    discount     13%
10-20 pieces    discount     17%
20-35 pieces    discount     20%
35 or more pieces discount    TBA

Update #11: Basson's offer:

List prices:

Bumblebee pro 6  USD 5840.-
Blackbee pro 6 USD 6.220.-

Discount for 10+ units: 10% + free shipping + a "special invoice"

Update #12: Kwan organizes a [URL="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?94922-CAME-LA-NG-2-(Group-buy-test)-NYC&p=1153772&viewfull=1#post1153772"]meeting[/URL] to test the CAME / Laing system.

Update #13: Joey from CAME wrote me: "We can add add a LEMO power and an HD-SDI connector to the sled." Also I contacted Laing, the original producer of the CAME steadicam. They are preparing an offer and will send it to us early next week. Laing also could add LEMO and HD-SDI connectors.

[COLOR="#FFFF00"]Update #14: Joey from CAME wrote me the lowest possible price for him (incl. LEMO and HD-SDI), but asked not to publish it openly (same as eemov). I'll send everyone a pm tomorrow.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#FFFF00"]Update #15: Liang are doing a REDuser version of the M02 (same as CAME), incl. HD-SDI & LEMO, double battery plate similar to MOVcam and a monitor mount on 15mm rods. Photos are coming soon. Price ~1500USD. I told them we have the following requirements:

"[I]I think it would be best if there is a 4pin LEMO and an HD-SDI socket at the top as well as on the bottom of the sled . The battery plate could either go straight into the pole, and then be split up to the lower and the upper connector, or has a straight out cable to 4pin LEMO which would be connected to an additional 4pin LEMO connector at the bottom of the sled. This would make it easier to repair something, for example if a cable breaks."[/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR="#FFFF00"]Update #16: Liang just send me this message. I think we can make this group buy something really special:

[QUOTE]We are very interested in customizing a RED version for you. Please send us the list of your wishes, the datasheets and photos. We will try to design and produce a sample first.[/QUOTE]

So post your ideas, if possible with drawings or photos, so that there are no misunderstandings. I made an [URL="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?95153-Custom-Steadicam-for-REDusers-lt-1800USD-Post-your-ideas&p=1155876&viewfull=1#post1155876"]extra thread[/URL] for it. Or send them right to me via pm or mail, if you don't want to post them openly.[/COLOR]

Update #17: Contacted also Glidecam for an offer. They are considering it. -> They declined.

Update #18: Joey from CAME wrote me. He offered us a new price which I'll send you early next week via pm plus a discount for every future purchase. I just want to wait with the pm for the other offers by MOVcam and Glidecam, since sending a pm to everyone is quite time consuming.

[QUOTE]what is more , in future all your buyers can get our 12 percent discount if they shop at our company website: [url]www.camera-video-broadcast.com[/url][/QUOTE]

Update #19: I made a [URL="http://davidkellermann.blogspot.de/"]blog[/URL] where I'll post all the info on the group buy. Also I contacted L'aigle Paris and PROline. I made a [URL="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?95153-Custom-Steadicam-for-REDusers-lt-1800USD-Post-your-ideas&p=1155877&viewfull=1#post1155877"]list of modifications[/URL] people want to see in the system. Have a look if you want to add something.

This list is just for a more detailed quote and NOT a final list if buyers!

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